Forums → The Tavern → Time travel

The thing I find amusing is the number of people saying they would go back in time with the winning lottery numbers. How would that work exactly?

The lottery numbers come out of the machine randomly, so even if you had the knowledge of what they were a week ago, chances are the numbers won't be the same when the numbers are drawn.

Likewise with races. If 8 horses win a race on a particular day, and one of them wins, having that knowledge and going back in time doesn't stop random events happening during the race that changes the outcome.

Going back in time and patenting ideas wouldn't work brilliantly either. There are products that have come and gone because the timing of their release wasn't right, or the product didn't follow a natural route to market. So say you patented the idea for an operating system, or a type of engine or whatever. There is no guarantee that the random nature of life might not step in and cause what was a successful product to be a complete flop. Or that if history was rerun again, there could be someone who didn't succeed in your version of history, but rerun, they release a piece of software or an engine that is far superior to the one you're patented.

Travelling into the future probably wouldn't help either, because the solutions of the future may not necessarily work in the present. Lets say in the future there is some sort of machine invented, something that generates power without the need for fuel. You'd have to see the path to that machine, the logical progression of ideas and materials in order to recreate it in the past. Political solutions that may work in the future could be because of the events that led to that point and again, wouldn't necessarily work in the past.

I dislike the idea of time travel simply because it would lead to more problems than it could possibly solve and the majority of people couldn't just go backwards and forwards through time to observe, most would feel compelled to interact and usually for their own personal gain.

@Dewi

It's not random the second time, it's not even literally random the first time. In the lottery, it's all based on where the balls were placed and when they were taken out, and if you don't do anything to effect either of these, they will turn out the exact same way. Provided you don't change anything, the numbers will always be the same. Likewise with the horse example, unless you do something that will effect the horses, racetrack, jokey, ect, the results will turn out the same.

Okay, but what guarantee do you have that the balls will be placed in the exact same place? The lottery over here involves a bunch of balls being placed in a container and they're randomly released, so no matter how you put the balls into the container, you'll receive a random result every time you switch the machine on. Is that not how the lottery works where you are?

And with a horse race, there is always the chance for a random event. The horse that won the race originally could stumble, it could develop cramp... any number of random events could happen that change the eventual outcome.

The same could be said for other types of races, it only takes one random event to change the outcome. Car racing takes a split second change of mind by a driver and the race could be lost or won. Running, many runners have admitted that something crossed their mind during a race that spurred them on... what if something didn't cross their mind? What if something crossed their mind that made them give up? It's all random.

I wouldn't do anything. I would like to erase my mistakes, but then I might have other mistakes I wouldn't know how to deal with. I don't mind what I have to deal with now

I'd like to go back and observe, but like you say, erasing mistakes would probably cause more problems.

One of the things I find fascinating is that decisions we make throughout our lives can determine which way we go. If I'd studied harder as a kid, would I now be doing a different job? And if I did have a different job, would I have a different social circle? Given a different social circle, would I have the same hobbies or interests?

Observing seems perfect. I'd like to see what would happen if I made different choices, and kind of monitor what happened as a result. But the possibilities would be infinite.. There are so many choices we make in life we don't even realize affect our lives.

Kind of like that film, Sliding Doors.

Only problem I could see with observing is being able to observe without attracting attention. For instance, a period I'm fascinated with is the beginnings of the industrial revolution and the rapid expansion of industry. It led to new types of housing being developed for workers, better transport links and all of this was going on at the same time. How to observe without becoming involved though would be difficult, even if you were to dress in period clothing, few would know how to act and where to go. You can't exactly stand on street corners and just watch the world go by as people would want to know what you were doing.

Okay, but what guarantee do you have that the balls will be placed in the exact same place? The lottery over here involves a bunch of balls being placed in a container and they're randomly released, so no matter how you put the balls into the container, you'll receive a random result every time you switch the machine on. Is that not how the lottery works where you are?

How can the results be the same though?

No two individual draws are the same, and that is exactly what this would be... two individual draws.

The lottery machine has no concept of time or time travel for that matter, so the minute they start the machine it will bring out random balls.

And the definition of random is proceeding, made, or occuring without definite aim, reason or pattern. Lottery balls have no pattern, no aim nor reason, so how could they possibly come out the same on two separate instances just because those two instances share the same space in time?

No two individual draws are the same, and that is exactly what this would be... two individual draws.

It all depends on the lottery machine.

If the lottery machine uses the ping pong ball method, the results would more than likely be difference as it is based on the laws of mathematics and probability.

Whereas if the lottery machine was computer controlled, it would use a pseudo-random process based on a mathematical formula. There is an outside chance that the computer would use the identical formula and come up with identical numbers. But again, it is a chance.

Working out the odds is something that may take a while.

I still believe the chances would be slim. It would be like going back in time and rolling a dice. No two dice are rolled exactly the same twice, so you couldn't guarantee the results twice in a row.

Again, the lottery machine, like the dice, may occupy the same space time, but if the result is truly random as apposed to pseudo-random, the results are not guaranteed to be the same.

It all depends on the lottery machine.

Whereas if the lottery machine was computer controlled, it would use a pseudo-random process based on a mathematical formula. There is an outside chance that the computer would use the identical formula and come up with identical numbers. But again, it is a chance.

Whereas if the lottery machine was computer controlled, it would use a pseudo-random process based on a mathematical formula. There is an outside chance that the computer would use the identical formula and come up with identical numbers. But again, it is a chance.

I still believe the chances would be slim. It would be like going back in time and rolling a dice. No two dice are rolled exactly the same twice, so you couldn't guarantee the results twice in a row.

if the result is truly random

You don't know what is going to happen, because the machine isn't going to produce the exact same results. If that were the case, why doesn't the machine produce the same numbers every week? Just because it produced the numbers last Saturday in one pattern, doesn't mean if you went back in time you could reproduce the exact same results. The odds of that happening are astronomical.

I'm fully aware of how a computer can use a formula, but each time a program is run to reach a pseudo-random number, it isn't going to produce the same result. If it did, as I say, the lottery results on computer-controlled lottery machines would be the same every week.

And you're ignoring the fact that the machine could be the ping pong ball variety. A computer doesn't control the results, it is the balls rotating in a chamber, striking each other randomly and a ball being pulled out at a given interval. How can that be anything but random? Are you going to tell me that the balls will strike each other in the exact same place on two separate occassions?

I'm going to point out that "No two dice are rolled exactly the same twice" is completely false, you can roll a die and receive the same results twice in a row. And they will be exactly the same, provided you used the exact same force, angle, location, ect, which you will unless you or someone else causes you to change it.

It's not truly random, nothing is truly random.

So if I stick 49 numbered ping pong balls into a black bag, are you going to tell me you can pick out an exact number from that bag? Of course you can't, you are going to pick out a random ball.

You don't know what is going to happen, because the machine isn't going to produce the exact same results.

If that were the case, why doesn't the machine produce the same numbers every week?

Just because it produced the numbers last Saturday in one pattern, doesn't mean if you went back in time you could reproduce the exact same results

each time a program is run to reach a pseudo-random number, it isn't going to produce the same result

And you're ignoring the fact that the machine could be the ping pong ball variety.

How can that be anything but random?

Are you going to tell me that the balls will strike each other in the exact same place on two separate occassions?

That I would love to see. Someone would have to be incredibly skilled (some would say freakishly skilled) to reproduce the exact force, angle etc. to enable an identical result to the first throw.

Show me one example of someone throwing a die repeatedly and receiving the same number every time without the die being loaded.

So if I stick 49 numbered ping pong balls into a black bag, are you going to tell me you can pick out an exact number from that bag? Of course you can't, you are going to pick out a random ball.