Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both willing, and able? then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?
if there was a god, there would be no famine, no suffering, the world would be at peace and harmony.
And why would that be? So we can be babied by God? So you can just do nothing all day and when you get hungry just say "God, I'm hungry, make me a sandwich?" Everything you do has a consequence, cause and effect, and God want us to know that.
yes its pure, it is not messed wit. and thats what God wants, is to have a pure and simple mind, see God is a simple God.
Actually they ARE messed with. You see children would have no idea about God if THEIR PARENTS didn't brainwash them with the fairy tale book called the bible. That's not pure, that's Jesus zombification/brainwashing.
Actually they ARE messed with. You see children would have no idea about God if THEIR PARENTS didn't brainwash them with the fairy tale book called the bible. That's not pure, that's Jesus zombification/brainwashing.
im talking bout kids who know about Jesus, but not brainwashed, they just know that there is someone they cant see who loves them, and they love him, they feel better why they know someone is there wit them when there mother or father can not be .... they are not brainwashed, the are just pure.
Actually they ARE messed with. You see children would have no idea about God if THEIR PARENTS didn't brainwash them with the fairy tale book called the bible. That's not pure, that's Jesus zombification/brainwashing.
Although you could also make the argument that if children didn't have science books to read (once they are older, obviously), there would be more believers because they are forced to accept the scientific arguement. Even if it is correct most of the time, it is still handed to children to accept without pondering. Much like faith, anyone who has pondered science has a better understanding of it and even more credible arguments in favor of it. Anything that reaches out and touches someone has a direct effect on their mindset. I've been told these stories as a child, and I have never converted from my faith, but I'm not brainwashed (or even worse, zombified). I've considered the possibility that there is no God, or that I believe in the wrong god. Also, children's "urity" exists in their acceptance, but (before you quote that) let me explain. Children have an honest way of looking at the world; maybe not always the most valid way of doing so, but they have an honest acceptance rather than mistrust and doubt. I would still be happy if there was no God (although I'd prefer if there was, but...), because through my belief I have both channeled an honest relationship with the people around me and gained the ability to have intelligent discussions around my faith, no matter who I am discussing with.
I know you weren't replying to me, but I thought I'd point that out. Mostly the term "brainwashed" makes it seem more like some kind of Nazi cult which, hopefully, is not in the same category as religious beliefs.
Actually they ARE messed with. You see children would have no idea about God if THEIR PARENTS didn't brainwash them with the fairy tale book called the bible. That's not pure, that's Jesus zombification/brainwashing.
So my whole school is a brainwashing facility? Wow...
âThe heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledgeâ (Psalm 19:1, 2).
Although you could also make the argument that if children didn't have science books to read (once they are older, obviously), there would be more believers because they are forced to accept the scientific arguement. Even if it is correct most of the time, it is still handed to children to accept without pondering. Much like faith, anyone who has pondered science has a better understanding of it and even more credible arguments in favor of it.
I see your point, HOWEVER... the stuff like the big bang and evolution isn't taught until a much older age, and by then people are able to choose for themselves what they believe in and won't be persuaded easily by science textbooks.
im talking bout kids who know about Jesus, but not brainwashed, they just know that there is someone they cant see who loves them, and they love him, they feel better why they know someone is there wit them when there mother or father can not be .... they are not brainwashed, the are just pure.
You basically said what I said but took out said it isn't brainwashing somehow. They feel better someone is with them? Yeah, that's true that it makes them feel better which is why it's brainwashing. They make you feel good about having someone there at a young age then you get too attached to that comfort and won't think for yourself either forever or for a really long time.
So my whole school is a brainwashing facility? Wow...
Did I say that? You weren't here for the whole conversation, she said children's minds are pure, but how can that be true if they are fed with the fairy tales of the bible from such a young age without anything else to challenge it?
. Children have an honest way of looking at the world; maybe not always the most valid way of doing so, but they have an honest acceptance rather than mistrust and doubt.
So they blindly follow the bible without doubt? Got it.
I know you weren't replying to me, but I thought I'd point that out. Mostly the term "brainwashed" makes it seem more like some kind of Nazi cult which, hopefully, is not in the same category as religious beliefs.
Yeah, I see what you mean... however if you think about it all religions sort of are cults without the taking over the world part. I stand by what I said that children are brainwashed with religion from a young age, if they weren't then they would be learning both sides from a young age and choose for themselves once they were old enough.
You basically said what I said but took out said it isn't brainwashing somehow. They feel better someone is with them? Yeah, that's true that it makes them feel better which is why it's brainwashing. They make you feel good about having someone there at a young age then you get too attached to that comfort and won't think for yourself either forever or for a really long time.
not what im saying, you really are not open to change or you would understand what im saying.
So they blindly follow the bible without doubt? Got it.
its not blindly, its what they want to believe, and its what they think is true.
I stand by what I said that children are brainwashed with religion from a young age, if they weren't then they would be learning both sides from a young age and choose for themselves once they were old enough.
its the parents job to teach them what they believe, when the children leave the house and get into the world, that is when they can pick, just cause not everyone of them picks to not believe in god does not mean they are brainwashed. -how that you understood that, cuz im not sure it made sence-
not what im saying, you really are not open to change or you would understand what im saying.
How is that? I was raised catholic for 14 years and CHOOSE to be an agnostic... no offense but I think IT'S YOU who's not open to change or you would give what I'm saying a chance because you know it makes sense.
its not blindly, its what they want to believe, and its what they think is true.
You really think they want to believe it? Or do their parents want them to believe it? We can't know what they WANT to believe unless they have had both sides taught to them and made a choice once they are old enough.
its the parents job to teach them what they believe, when the children leave the house and get into the world, that is when they can pick, just cause not everyone of them picks to not believe in god does not mean they are brainwashed. -how that you understood that, cuz im not sure it made sence-
I understood where he was coming from but didn't agree... is that a crime in your religion? I know a lot of open mindedness is but I didn't know disagreeing was.
So they blindly follow the bible without doubt? Got it.
Well, that's one way to look at it. I follow with this type of childlike acceptance, but within reason. I think considering religion to be false is necessary for faith to grow, but I also think that it's hard for a child to deal with "not knowing". They are probably going to go with what makes more sense at face value, and in my opinion, that'd be atheism. Being behind the scenes of the actual faith probably biases me one way, but I like being able to understand it better, and my reasons for it.
Yeah, I see what you mean... however if you think about it all religions sort of are cults without the taking over the world part. I stand by what I said that children are brainwashed with religion from a young age, if they weren't then they would be learning both sides from a young age and choose for themselves once they were old enough.
I would probably be an atheist if I hadn't been taught religion early; by the same token, of course, I understand and accept the burden that I need to be able to deny what I believe in hypothetical circumstances or I can't see both sides. Maybe it wouldn't appear like brainwashing if this practice was taught at a later age as well. The fact is, not teaching it at a young age will almost guarantee that they won't choose it, because they will have to reason, without religion as an option, that there is no afterlife and no creator. But I doubt we'd ever really be able to find a completely non-biased way of teaching children both sides of the issue.
How is that? I was raised catholic for 14 years and CHOOSE to be an agnostic... no offense but I think IT'S YOU who's not open to change or you would give what I'm saying a chance because you know it makes sense.
Funnily enough, I considered a similar move at that age, without a particular backup religion (or lack thereof) in mind, so I know we have a similar background. In all honesty, if you hadn't been raised Catholic and seen it from behind the scenes, do you think you could use arguments that would relate so well to Christians? I have taken a lot of dipping into atheism specifically lately because I need it. If it's correct, I will be able to detach myself from my "cult", and if it's incorrect, then I will be able to defend my beliefs more accurately. Just thoughts that popped into my head, though, nothing too insulting, I hope.
Well, that's one way to look at it. I follow with this type of childlike acceptance, but within reason. I think considering religion to be false is necessary for faith to grow, but I also think that it's hard for a child to deal with "not knowing". They are probably going to go with what makes more sense at face value, and in my opinion, that'd be atheism. Being behind the scenes of the actual faith probably biases me one way, but I like being able to understand it better, and my reasons for it.
You sound very well educated on this matter and open minded... which makes it hard to believe you follow the bible! lol, but whatever as long as you're not a jesus freak and actually listen to other ideas without discarding them in an irrational matter that's fine by me.
Funnily enough, I considered a similar move at that age, without a particular backup religion (or lack thereof) in mind, so I know we have a similar background. In all honesty, if you hadn't been raised Catholic and seen it from behind the scenes, do you think you could use arguments that would relate so well to Christians? I have taken a lot of dipping into atheism specifically lately because I need it. If it's correct, I will be able to detach myself from my "cult", and if it's incorrect, then I will be able to defend my beliefs more accurately. Just thoughts that popped into my head, though, nothing too insulting, I hope.
Actually, I'm an agnostic and you can read what that means for me on the last paragraph of my profile if you want lol, I suggest you do to see if we believe the same thing perhaps? Anyways I hope you not only dip into Atheism but being an agnostic as well. I think it's good to see things from other points of view which is why I debate others on this site. It gives me a good perspective, not totally perfect because it mostly consists of other teens like me lol, but still a good start for an adolescent lol... so far all the debates I've been in have led me from Atheism to becoming an Agnostic, mostly I persuaded myself in my own responses... but I credit it a lot to everyone I debated, so thanks everyone I debated lol
Oh also, I took no offense at all... noting was insulting to me lol
You sound very well educated on this matter and open minded... which makes it hard to believe you follow the bible! lol, but whatever as long as you're not a jesus freak and actually listen to other ideas without discarding them in an irrational matter that's fine by me.
Thanks. Sadly enough, I get in more debates with people on my side than on the other side.
Anyway, your profile sounded very interesting. Like all words, they can apply to different groups of people. They do apply with the "I don't know" stuff, but I also have a strong belief. Being a Christian who admits I don't know has had a positive effect on seeing many sides, I think. The only thing is, I agree with my faith in its entirety, at least through my own interpretation. As an adult I'll definitely have to consider this more, but as a child, I know my perspective is limited and that shifting from where I am might put me in a sort of back-and-forth setup as an adult.
Like I said before, if you would have read the thread from the beginning, you would know what's really going on. Absolutely no one here is trying to "convert" believers into non-believers ... In fact, if you would have read earlier posts, we even stated such. We are more or less debating on the bible, and yes, whether there is a god or not. However I personally have yet to see a post on this thread that told someone that believing in God is ridiculous ... No one person can say, with any certainty, that God exist or that he doesn't ... hence, it was quite arrogant of you to ASSUME we stated that, when we have not. Why? It's true ya know? God isn't real
If there is free will but God wants to get rid of evil, the God can't exist.
I got smart to realize that there was nothing to say anything to me.
O no... but there isn't anyone saying God doesn't exist, or any form of brainwashing... I now fully understand, u were right the whole time!!!! =0...
sources are by your best athiest buddy valk btw... =)
