NOTE: This is not an anti religion post, simply a philosophical and age old debate.
Ok, so very very basically, here is an issue with the typical Christian view of God, a view shared by other religions, aside, however.
God is all good God is all powerful (omnipotent) God is all knowing
If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?
Some say God creates us with the choice to do good and bad that we may have free will.
So, in this case God creates us without knowing if we'll choose to be good or bad people, or even if we will believe in him/her.
So God doesn't know if we're going to be good or bad, so God is not all knowing.
BUT - Imagine we still want to hold that he his all knowing, i.e he knows everything about everything. This means God creates us knowing that we're going to be good or bad people, this means that he condemns those he creates bad to a life of sin and ultimately hell, so he can't be all Good.
BUT - if we want to still hold that he is all good, then there must be another reason murderers and tsunamis exist, but what? Maybe God created the world, and is not powerful enough to intervene. Then God is no longer all-powerful. Either that or he is powerful enough to intervene, and simply doesn't want to, in which case he is not all good. What do you think about all this?
He created the devil and he does not stop the devil from doing these things.
I just thought of this. Didn't he create the devil originally as an angel that later decided to go against god. And by stopping him, wouldn't that prevent the angel's free will?
Before you are either? So no matter what, God knows what you will be and you can't change it? That is not free will.
Well that depends. If he just knows then that does nothing to the free will. If he makes everything in life go that way then it does affect free will.
I just thought of this. Didn't he create the devil originally as an angel that later decided to go against god. And by stopping him, wouldn't that prevent the angel's free will?
Yes, exactly. The Devil does all the bad in the world because he had/has the free will to do so.
Well that depends. If he just knows then that does nothing to the free will. If he makes everything in life go that way then it does affect free will
Again, exactly. Knowing what who you will be does not mean he is taking away free will. It just means he knows. If he made you that way, that takes it away. Really, if he changes or affects anything that happens anywhere on this planet that would take away a bit of free will, so there is a very thin line there.
Well, yes. As long as we assume that the devil is the one causing the bad in the world then it is odd he is not being punished for it
Well, assuming that the Devil can be destroyed, maybe he is the one that controls all the bad people after they die and watches over them in hell. And if you can avoid his evilness, you are rewarded with heaven/reincarnation, if you believe in that.
But this part, why would a benevolent god allow the Devil to interfere? Wouldn't the Devil interfering be considered a breach of free will?
Yes, but not a breach on God's part. This would be the Devil's action. And there is no rule saying that the Devil can't interfere. Why he is allowed to is beyond me.
If God is trying to let us have free will, then anything interfering with that would be interfering with free will. Since God has the power to stop the Devil but does not, that makes him an accomplice.
Wait, how exactly does that work? Let's say I see you getting attacked and I have a taser. But instead of tasing the guy attacking you, I walk away. Would I still be considered an accomplice?
Let's say I see you getting attacked and I have a taser. But instead of tasing the guy attacking you, I walk away. Would I still be considered an accomplice?
It's a bit of a gray area. Any moral person would probably call the police, even if they themselves did not get involved. In some states you can be sued for witnessing a crime and not reporting it I believe.
The reason I said God is an accomplice is this.
1) God created the devil, right? 2) God knows the devil is/has been doing evil 3) God has the power to stop the devil
So, let's say you have a kid, and you give him a gun. (Satan is an angel so he obviously has some powers) The kid then goes out and harrasses, shoots, kills, and forces others to do things. You as a parent know where your kid is and what he's doing. You do not tell anyone. See what a moral sinkhole that is? Maybe accomplice is the wrong word, but God is ALLOWING the devil to cause evil, and there's something wrong with that. (Assume God is all powerful/All loving)
I like your analogy, but it seems like it needs to be a little more specific.
Let's say that originally you have multiple children, and you teach them all to hunt and shoot deer. Then one of your kids grows up and decides hes going to take this skill and shoot people instead. The thing is, you could stop him. You could easily beat him up and stomp on him. But do you? To me it seems like a tricky question.
If he can't be around sin, then dosen't that show mental weakness?
I just thought of this. Didn't he create the devil originally as an angel that later decided to go against god. And by stopping him, wouldn't that prevent the angel's free will?
Actaulay you could go further and say that god made the angel go agianst him since god knew all along that that would happen.
But this part, why would a benevolent god allow the Devil to interfere? Wouldn't the Devil interfering be considered a breach of free will?
But dosen't god's divine plan also breach free will anyway? It makes me think that in this god world that we have no control over what happens.
Why he is allowed to is beyond me.
It seems to me that god is not all powerful if he's letting the devil have free roam even though the devil is screwing everyone. (no pun intended)
The kid then goes out and harrasses, shoots, kills, and forces others to do things. You as a parent know where your kid is and what he's doing. You do not tell anyone. See what a moral sinkhole that is?
Haha almost the exact plot of The Bad Egg
2) God knows the devil is/has been doing evil
Also if he's all knowing, then he will know that the devil will continue doing it for quite a while.
3) God has the power to stop the devil
It seems to me that god dosen't have all power, because if we do bad, we go to hell, if devil does bad, no reproqusions (in other words payback, i don't know how bad the spelling was of that word).
Supposedly the Devil being thrown out of Heaven and into hell was his punishment.
But it seems that hell dosen't do much, from what people think of him, he seems to enjoy it and he still has free roam of Earth since he still is manipulating people. I think that if god was all powerful/good, he would cut the devils connections (judging that god's difinition of good is ours).
