ForumsGamesWhat do YOU think makes a good game?

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shayblyth
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shayblyth
135 posts
Nomad

Do YOU like violence, action, horror, car chases, wars......?

Do YOU like games in the past, present or future?

  • 93 Replies
AzaJeffery
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AzaJeffery
42 posts
Nomad

Ok then. That is a good and tricky question. I believe a good game consists with 3 key elements.
1. UPGRADES
2. WEAPONARY
3. CHARACTER COMMUNICATION

What i'm getting at is that all good games should have what players really want. The 1 big thing in internet games is people talking to eachother. Thanks for the good questions and keep them coming!

hackzor616
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hackzor616
11 posts
Nomad

a good game has to have a idea that everyone likes and need to be executed well. But ya ppl like to play games to live a fantasy.

iskane
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iskane
267 posts
Nomad

A good story. Guns and violence. Basically just action.

allanzz
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allanzz
30 posts
Nomad

violence,action,war and principally ARMOR games i like games in the past,present and in the future

ninja_pwnage
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ninja_pwnage
135 posts
Nomad

really random stuff

accoch63
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accoch63
6 posts
Nomad

I like RPGs that have a storyline, but you're allowed to run around on your own a lot and do side-quests. Like FFXII.

Good boss battles are essential. Non-repetitive gameplay, even if you're just making a shoot-em-up.

sk8erx3
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sk8erx3
39 posts
Nomad

my personal fav's are games that you can roam in like the GTA series or "Assassins Creed"

shayblyth
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shayblyth
135 posts
Nomad

I too like games were you can run around and not just have a fixed gameplay.

Doom_367
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Doom_367
32 posts
Nomad

I love any good RPG. A good one to me would be one that gives you alot of choices.
For example I loved the Knights of the Old Republic. The ability to choose whether you're good or bad and have it affect your skills and the outcome of the game is awesome.
Another game like it (but better in alot of ways) was Fable always an awesome game can't wait for the second one.
Another is Oblivion... (I could go on forever but I'll stop here) Q(-_-Q)

HOCKEYBOY10
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HOCKEYBOY10
158 posts
Nomad

zombies are the best

ChillzMaster
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ChillzMaster
1,434 posts
Nomad

I'm sick of this "Good Graphics" argument as to what is a good game. As stated excellently by The Escapist's Extra Credits team, what makes or breaks a game's visuals is the Aesthetic, or style of visual, not the graphics. You can have the world's most visually-appealing game and still have it look like someone rubbed their *** cheeks on everything after a feast of broccoli, red bull, and beans.

My first argument as to what makes a good game is a good aesthetic. Games like Borderlands, Crackdown (especially the second one), Fable, World of Warcraft, Oblivion, and Minecraft all have a specific feel to them because of their respective stunning aesthetic pallet. Games like Gears of War, Call of Duty, Bad Company, even the first Crysis are very brown, and only differentiate into different shades of brown. Sure, other colors are thrown in there for random things like uniforms and flares, but they're all very brown games.

Note: Nothing saying about quality yet, I happen to adore nearly every game mentioned above, but I prefer a unique art style to this Brown Phase the VG market is stuck in right now.


Anyway, onto actual quality; an actually perplexing question. It really all depends; but there are some very core elements to maintain, even there, a humongous amount of exceptions occur.

Let's talk characters.
Generally, people want to love their characters. We want to be able to recall each character's personality vividly and expect how they're going to respond to each situation because of their character type. Delta Squad, Bad Co, Garrus, Price, Ezio, and John Marston, stand as characters that were crafted to be emotional, detailed, and emotionally attachable.

One such exception is Isaac Clarke, the silent protagonist from Dead Space. Over the course of the game, the player *SPOILER* watches his slow descent into insanity until the final cutscene, where is face is FINALLY SHOWN and you crap your pants because of the final two seconds. Well, I did anyway. Despite him being quiet, I felt like I was going insane too, I followed him along his nine hour journey across the USG Ishimura, I had fought everything he had, I had gone everywhere he had, and I had believed everything he had. In Dead Space 2, Isaac was given a voice and more face time, a fantastic choice by Visceral.


Alright, gameplay. This is a toughy. Characters and Aesthetics are easy, this is some hard nut to crack, and harder still to collect the fluid that comes pouring out when you crack it.

Gameplay can be simple, like tetris or space invaders or Minecraft, and still be fantastic. Gameplay can be as complicated as Crysis, Total War, Civilization, or all those **** sports games I can barely play offensively in and still be fantastic.

Let's look at a good game and a bad game of the same genre.

Homefront and Halo: Reach.

Concept: Halo: Reach is the culmination of nearly ten years of Halo and the final cry from Bungie studios that has any affiliation with the series. (the announced Halo 4 is, I'm guessing, being developed by 343) As a prequel to Combat Evolved, Reach takes place during the Halo Universe's Pearl Harbor, the Covenant fleet attacking the largest base the humans had and effectively GLASSING it.

Homefront is a 2011 FPS that's like Red Dawn only with Koreans and capitalizes on the success of modern shooters by looking and controlling just like Black Ops, an already samey game. The story is was picked off the top of the "already done" pile and tries to make you love a bunch of arguing zeroes and ones who can't even decide how to properly kill the Far Eastern occupants of their Land of Free and Home of Brave.

Aesthetics: Reach uses colorful enemies, varied environments, and vivid characters to tell the tragic tale of the planet Reach and the humans who fought to save their home.

Homefront uses brown characters, brown environments, a red bridge and C4 to tell a tale of liberation of retaliation from invading forces.


Tone: Reach utilizes unique controls to match its unique game and still lacks Iron sights because Bungie wanted to convey a certain feel to the characters being controlled. The reason your character can jump 50 feet in the air and take a hundred bullets is because he was engineered to do so; he isn't going to just take a shot and run away like some normal soldiers named Roach or Marlowe. He's going to get shot, drop into Armor lock and then his four other power-armored buddies are going to get the drop on enemy using their Active Camo.

Homefront uses the exact Call of Duty controls because that's what it is; a Call of Duty with Koreans instead of Russians; or a Bad Co without destruction physics, impeccable graphics and the most powerful engine out there; or a Crysis 2 without the suit that makes one superstrong, superfast, superinvisible, and superinvincible. Homefront also lacks a connection to the character thanks to the feel of the game. One can easily forget they're playing Homefront and assume they're just playing Shoot and Explode because of how boring and monotonous it all is.

Reach defined itself, it created a unique experience and Bungie knocked the game out of the park. Homefront tried to walk in the footsteps of its bigger, better, older brothers and got obscured by the massive shadows cast by them.

Before I end this comparison, a bit of news, Bungie is currently working on a brand new IP with Activision, while the developers of Homefront are being dissolved. Ah well. thats what you get for causing a standstill.

I know this was a shooter comparison and many people hate on shooters, but check this out; Shooters have immense variety that good games require.

Want to just shoot and have fun? check out a post-2007 Call of Duty. Maybe destruction, graphics, characterization, and powerful engines are your style - then Bad Co is the place to be.
Want the RPG and loot-gathering styles of Diablo, but with the assurance of getting a hit like in Halo? Borderlands' got you covered.
Maybe an extensive story, massive amounts of innovative weapons, and a physics engine is what you're craving? Half-Life 2 is there with its various GOTY 2004 awards to hold you.

Games can be good for a humongous amount of reasons, Saint's Row's character customization, Amnesia: The Dark Descent's scary-ness, Duke Nukem's over-the-topness, Mass Effect's epic gunplay and relationships, Civilization's One More Turn gamestyle, Total War's massive battles, World of Warcraft's WORLD OF WARCRAFT, Minecraft's simple beauty, and Batman's badassness (where's rachel?!?!?) are the reasons these games are good, they're the reason we come back time adn time again to defeat GlaDos, to save Cyrodiil, to level up.

Games are good for various reasons based on various people, and as an industry, we must unite for the voice of The Better Game, the unannounced, unreleased game of tomorrow that will forever change games.

Oh yes, one last thing...

No Russian.

-Chillz

greentrev106
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greentrev106
179 posts
Shepherd

A good storyline, Like the Halo games, They have a good story and it's put together by the game series

Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

Chillz, well bloody done brutha. Too bad you didn't involve a lot of links, but I guess I can throw some out there to help back you up:
WTF Is Homefront? - By Totalbiscuit.
First Impressions of Crysis 2 and how being allowed to fail is awesome. - Also by Totalbiscuit (fairly put this was an answer to people raging about his opinion on Homefront in the previous linked video).

Final moments in Halo: Reach. (Namely 1:00 to 1:15)

Quick thing, the main reason I love World of Warcraft is the lore. The immersion presented in its latest expansion is absolutely outstanding and whilst I no longer play it I can easily say it is one of the best games in terms of story and immersion.

Unlike that of Call of Duty -- it presents itself as how war is waged, and in the multiplayer it's all about noscope, quickscope, running around and bunnyhopping. The presentation is terrible, the gameplay in No.4 is classic, but after that it gets insanely badly tended to (unbalanced, technical issues etc).

You want excellent presentation? Try Starcraft II or Mass Effect II.

Hope those links help show what I'm talking about, and show what ChillzMaster means to show as well

Bad Company presentation in Campaign is actually done through the basic gameplay, instead of these dull scripted events scripted in games like CoD (which funnily enough is mentioned in the WTF is Homefront video).

Last off, you guys should know these vids are all from YouTube and as such I'd like to say the only reason NOT to watch is lack of time or a more rare situation. See you all!

- H

KentyBK
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KentyBK
566 posts
Nomad

Finally a thread I can sink my teeth into.

My first argument as to what makes a good game is a good aesthetic.


Not even close. Doesn't even matter if it's the actual graphical capability or the art design. All a good aestatic can do, is improve an already good game, but aesthetic is not someone that actually makes a game good. If you have a crap game, but awesome aesthetic, people will describe your game with "The game looks good, BUT..." (Final Fantasy XIII is a good example of this).

Pong didn't have any sort of aesthetic. Neither did Pacman or Tetris. Yet, those games were amazingly succesfull, which suggests aesthetic does not make a good game.

As for Minecraft, I'm not sure I'd call this a specific aesthetic Notch chose. It seems more likely to me the "block design" was chosen because it was the most functional for how the game is supposed to work (which by the way, is the only job the graphics need to fulfill). Having a full HD Minecraft with perfect shapes AND a near endlessly generated world just wouldn't work. And this makes adding to the game much easier, since all blocks have the same basic template (you only need to make a new texture).

Let's talk characters.
Generally, people want to love their characters.


Do they really? Why do you think Link or Chrono don't actually talk? What about Samus (excluding Fusion and Other M)?

We want to be able to recall each character's personality vividly and expect how they're going to respond to each situation because of their character type. Delta Squad, Bad Co, Garrus, Price, Ezio, and John Marston, stand as characters that were crafted to be emotional, detailed, and emotionally attachable.


You know what personality I could relate to even better? How about my OWN. If you have all these *deep* and *complex* characters, you'll inevitable shift focus away from the game to those characters, making the game more like a movie than an actual video game. By not having these characterisations, a player can associate himself much more to the game as he plays it.

And to reference Extra Credits myself, you can still define a personality without having a single line of dialogue.

In Dead Space 2, Isaac was given a voice and more face time, a fantastic choice by Visceral.


I'm confused. You said how having a silent protagonist added to the game, yet you still think giving him a voice was a "fantastic choice" (which sounds like think the silent treament was a bad design choice).:S

Gameplay can be simple, like tetris or space invaders or Minecraft, and still be fantastic. Gameplay can be as complicated as Crysis, Total War, Civilization, or all those **** sports games I can barely play offensively in and still be fantastic.


Everyone of those games, except Crysis (then again I don't know sinc e I haven't played it), have one thing in common: Freedom of choice, by which I mean those games offer a variety of ways you can play it with all choices being acceptable. Let's take Civilization as an example: You can try and be very agressive and try to take over all the countries, or you can try a peaceful approach and win the game with scientific advancements. Both of those choices are ok and there's no right or wrong way to play the game.

Even in a simple game like Tetris, you have different kinds of strategies. Do I clear the rows 1-for-1, or do I wait for that I-Block to clear for rows at once, at the risk of screwing up?

So in essence, what makes those games good is that the personality of the player itself affects how they experience the game (which is also why open sandbox games like Fallout or Baldur's Gate are loved by players). By not designing your game around a specific player personality, you'll have a game that is much more accesible and therefore more enjoyable in general.

There's 2 more very important factors that make a good game: Simplicity and Replayability.

I'll start with the simplicity argument. Looking at how games have evolved over the past years, it's easy to see that games have become more and more complex. But is that really a good thing? Tetris and Minecraft prove you don't need super amazingly complex gameplay to be successful.

Shooters these days are very complex (with cover systems and all kinds of other additions) but look at Doom, arguably one of the most important shooters ever. It's by no means a complex game. You don't even need to aim up and down. xD

Yet, Doom is a blast to play.

I'll even go so far as to say that making games more "simple" again, is a big reason for why the Wii was so massively successful. Even if someone never played a video game before, it's easy for them to start playing Wii Sports and the like.

You'll also notice that the same things works if you give them an old NES or SNES game.

It seems that somewhere along the way, a lot of games lost their simplicity which just makes it harder for non-gamers to get into them.

"Easy to play, hard to master" is a good keyword in that sense.

Now onto replayability, a term I'm sure I don't need to explain xP.

From personal experience, I notice that most modern games that I finish land on my shelve, never to be replayed again. Mind you, I'm talking about the main campaign. If a game has a good Multiplayer, I'll shift to only playing the game for it's Multiplayer and nothing else.

So why is it that lots of games lose their appeal after being completed once? It's because they lack replayability. A good game doesn't need to rely on its Multiplayer component to enhance replayability when the Singleplayer is something fun to go back to.

Again, most of the games you listed fit this description, with loads more being the ever-so-popular old-school games of yore.

So what can be done to increase replayability? I already mentioned one factor up above. Another would be to stop using cutscenes and generally relying on story to carry your game. Once you get rid of all the bloat (because once again the story should only server a functional purpose similar to graphics) you can go back to making games revolve around the more important things again.

I think there should be a distinction between stories similar to how you seperated aesthetics with actual graphics.

One being a "story", while the other is a "narrative". Look at something simple like Super Mario Bros. People often say Mario games have no story, but they DO. Granted it's the cliche "Hero rescues princess" scenario, but it's a story nonetheless. What Mario DOESN'T have is a narrative (with rising action, falling action, etc.). By the time you make your game focus on the narrative too much, you stop making a game and instead start making a movie.

And that's my massive thought wall.

To close off:

Duke Nukem's over-the-topness


...doesn't seem to help Duke Nukem Forever. ;D
idontsuckthatmuch
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idontsuckthatmuch
2,261 posts
Nomad

I think this is an easy question: How fun the game is.

That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

P.S. I'm the first to notice the timestamp. Yay for me!

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