ForumsGamesWhat do YOU think makes a good game?

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shayblyth
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shayblyth
135 posts
Nomad

Do YOU like violence, action, horror, car chases, wars......?

Do YOU like games in the past, present or future?

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Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

Sadly they ruined that completely in the sequel by making the pet teacging way too transparent. -.-

Indeed I heard about that, a lot of criticism coming into Black and White 2 for being too simplistic compared to the last one.

Not to mention that only happens if you screw up and get caught. You can still finish without ever losing anyone permanently.

That's pretty fantastic, where doing something wrong can cost you something very serious... I like that :P

Well I wasn't talking about people that *just* make custom maps using an editor from the developers. I mostly meant the people making very elaborate mods and total conversions of the original game.

Ah. Well yeah, they can do very well if they try and do something on their own, given the right oppurtunities

Tower Defense, Dota and Counter Stirke come to mind. Mind you I'm not saying modding is BAD, but it seems much easier to be noticed by the gaming community in general if you make a new game, rather than a mod (which has the risk of you being confined to the original games community). Not to mention your own game can make you more money in the long run ;D

Definitely, one thing I don't like though in Starcraft II is the Map Marketplace they're going to implement where modders can sell their mods... I think that'll reduce what people made it for - fun. It'll make it less a labor of love and more an attempt for money. I don't want that.

But that brings me to the most annoying gameplay element ever conceived: Quick Time Events. Is there *anyone* that actually likes these? I mean I get the thinking process behind them (*interactive cutscenes*) but they are so poorly done that it just tends to annoy people to no end.

Definitely. Instead make the coolness from quick-time events part of the gameplay and make it generally the case that you need be fast. Crysis 2's trailers make it seem like that, on your feet, adapting.

Even in the actual game you experience the same thing which is why I like it so much, it's not a lie on the trailers. :O

Compare a God Of War killing cutscene with Shadow of the Colossus. In SotC you ACTUALLY do all the fancy stuff yourself, from climbing up the monster to actually killing it. But all Quick Time Events are style over substance.

Shadow of the Colossus?
No idea what that game is.
But hey - I'm just gonna say yeah, substance > style and doing it all is much more (going back to your point) "Holy **** did I just do that?!"

I'm invited to PARTYTIME?
Sweet. <3

- H
mojo72595
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mojo72595
165 posts
Nomad

A good game needs to have a good title and cover (so that people are more interested in the game) it needs good graphics, an exciting campaign, fun multiplayer game modes, good weapons, and a main character that has something that makes him/her playable. Also, i think that games are a lot more fun when you are able to create you character, what they look like and what abilities they have. Then, you should be able to have many different paths to choose from during the campaign (sort of like the Fable game series)

KentyBK
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KentyBK
566 posts
Nomad

Definitely, one thing I don't like though in Starcraft II is the Map Marketplace they're going to implement where modders can sell their mods... I think that'll reduce what people made it for - fun. It'll make it less a labor of love and more an attempt for money. I don't want that.


Of course you could use the same reasoning for why that's a GOOD thing, because doing something out of love and doing something to get money don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I'd argue, this ensures people go the extra mile to make sure their mods are fun and appealing, since that would obviously lead to more sales.

If you have passion for something, it's all the more awesome if you can make money for doing that thing.

Shadow of the Colossus?
No idea what that game is.


:O

It would be this.

A game that focuses solely on fighting bosses. And before you ask, no the stumbling and stuff is not scripted. Maintaining your balance is part of the gameplay.
Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

Of course you could use the same reasoning for why that's a GOOD thing, because doing something out of love and doing something to get money don't have to be mutually exclusive.
I'd argue, this ensures people go the extra mile to make sure their mods are fun and appealing, since that would obviously lead to more sales.

Fair enough, but I don't like the idea of paying for mods, which is why I won't be. :P

If it is worth however much they're putting it up for then hell to the yeah I'm gonna buy it, if it's cheap then that's awesome too <3

Which I think it will be, I think they're adding a £10 limit or something. :P

- H
MindSucker
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MindSucker
62 posts
Nomad

Car Games (GT4, Motorstorm)
+

GTA4 isn't a car game >:| you just use the car a lot.


For me the best games are the RPG's where you are free to move wherever you want, something like oblivion and world of warcraft as MMO with many skills, for example Metin sucks for me.. my friend at level 50 has about 3 skills :O!

As a flash game a good example could be Epic Battle Fantasy ((3)I dont remember very well what number)It's really fun with many skills and equipment and items can be upgrated as well i enjoyed it really much ;D
FallenSky
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FallenSky
1,813 posts
Peasant

I'd go with storyline and originality, or novelty, given the actual state of the video game industry.

Take final fantasy 7 for example. The gameplay's fairly average; it's just a regular turn based rpg, but the story is so friggin' good, you just have to acknowledge the game as masterpiece. It's sad though that the game was so poorly traduced; there're grammar mistakes and anomalities everywhere. This game should really be made again with clearer, correct dialogues so as to really give the story all its glory.

A good example of originality would be shadow of the colossus. Just a few words are said through the whole game, and there're only 18 enemies to beat, yet, the fights are so madly epic, you can't help but fall totally in love with that game. Plus, it's one of the only Ps2 game to offer such a long range of camera: as far as the eye can see. The fact that you can travel the whole map without laodings makes the environment utterly majestic and interesting to discover. Me and my friend could go exploring for hours instead of actually taking care of the colossus.

James212
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James212
88 posts
Blacksmith

Um a game thats really hard but fun at the sametime.

FallenSky
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FallenSky
1,813 posts
Peasant

Um a game thats really hard but fun at the sametime.

Have you tried Devil may Cry...Or ghoul and ghosts *shrugs*.

snowguy13
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snowguy13
2,157 posts
Nomad

I look for (a) a great storyline, (b) an original, engaging concept, and (c) good music. I don't care much about the graphics; heck, they could be N64-crappy for all I care. I'm focused more on the game itself. For example, I'm a Wii person. It doesn't have the greatest graphics, but the games are really fun (Mario, Zelda, DK, etc.).

Phyco
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Phyco
41 posts
Nomad

A good game must have insane graphics. A long and captivating story line. Simple but effective controls. Something new and original to make it stand out from the rest.
And something every game designer has failed. A skirmish mode for single player. After you've done the story.

acetony1
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acetony1
48 posts
Peasant

Pedestrians, statistics, and third person driving....also a big map

Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

And something every game designer has failed. A skirmish mode for single player. After you've done the story.

Age of Empires series
Command and Conquer: Generals
Magicka (Challenge Mode)
Battlefield 1 + 2
Just sayin'.

- H
KentyBK
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KentyBK
566 posts
Nomad

Same could be said about game soundtracks, if good you will definitely like the game more for it, but it still isn't key for making a game good.


Never underestimate the power of music. Ever. Music is heaps and bounds above the graphics in importance. Just think about it, the most memorable part of our games is in fact the music. Look at the Halo theme, Still Alive, the Mario and Zelda themes and the list goes on for a looooong time.

Music can affect a player in a variety of ways (even to set up "drama" and tension without the need to ever show a single cutscene).

Imagine having a game WITHOUT music......it's disastrous. While obviously not as important as other things I mentioned, the game music is the next most important thing.

Maybe it's originality. For example, when Valve released Portal, it became a masterpiece and so was the sequel, and the game was new and fresh, no other game was like it. Something new to play, instead of the constant FPS like Black Ops, Batllefield bad company 2, Crysis core, Halo Reach...


Nice try but no. Your argument is kinda backwards if all the games you listed outsold the "original concept". Being a "masterpiece" is irrelevant in the long run if history forgets it compared to other, much more strongly selling games.

Like I mentioned, a storyline is also one of the key factors people look for in a game. The greater the story, also with elements of suprise, shock, twists and building tension would really make a game not only fun, but makes you want to know what else is going to happen, making you come back for more. Not all games need to be successful with a storyline, but mostly it's the storyline that makes a game great.


Explain why Wii Fit and Wii Sports sold the massive numbers that they did then (maybe both New Super Mario Bros games too).

The story is far from the most important aspect. Sure, as a gamer you'd like those elements, but none of the massively popular Main Stream games have those (I mean the likes of Tetris, Donkey Kong, Pacman, Wii Sports, Super Mario Bros. and the original Legend of Zelda) and they still ending up being massively successful.

I'd actually say the music is more important than the story.

A good game should be also exciting each time is played, games lacking this quality will get boring. Part of what makes a game good is personal preference, some people will like the game, some people won't. All good games have certain elements which are original, exciting and fun which is like a criteria in these days for games.


Wouldn't you agree that focusing on a story is bad for this exact reason? After all, you can't exactly get excited about the same story two times in a row.
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Fair enough, but I don't like the idea of paying for mods, which is why I won't be. :P

If it is worth however much they're putting it up for then hell to the yeah I'm gonna buy it, if it's cheap then that's awesome too <3

Which I think it will be, I think they're adding a ã10 limit or something. :P


Think of it this way, what if all the expensive mods where fresh takes on the genre in the same way as Dota or TOwer Defense? To get people to buy a fan-created MOD, you'd have to really do something interesting to get people to buy it.

Of course, paying 10 bucks for just new maps and slight alterations would be not a smart strategy ;D

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GTA4 isn't a car game >:|


He wasn't talking about GTA4 >:|

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Take final fantasy 7 for example. The gameplay's fairly average; it's just a regular turn based rpg, but the story is so friggin' good, you just have to acknowledge the game as masterpiece. It's sad though that the game was so poorly traduced; there're grammar mistakes and anomalities everywhere. This game should really be made again with clearer, correct dialogues so as to really give the story all its glory.


But is that really the reason? Tactics had an amazing plot too and very nice gameplay, but didn't even sell nearly as good as FF7.

Call it average, but I think the reason it's so popular is because it allows for lots of customization.

I mean most of the time you can customise:

- Your basic party members
- Your materia (which adds a complete layer of strategy and uniqueness to how each player plays the game)
- Your Equipment (which obviously determines the number of materia you can use)

Look at another loved Final Fantasy game: FF6

Has just as many options for you to customize it (and 14 party members were a pretty insane number o-0).

A good example of originality would be shadow of the colossus. Just a few words are said through the whole game, and there're only 18 enemies to beat, yet, the fights are so madly epic, you can't help but fall totally in love with that game. Plus, it's one of the only Ps2 game to offer such a long range of camera: as far as the eye can see. The fact that you can travel the whole map without laodings makes the environment utterly majestic and interesting to discover. Me and my friend could go exploring for hours instead of actually taking care of the colossus.


You just described why Shadow of the Colossus is a good game, but I'd say it's not because of it's originality.

It does a lot of things right:
- Epic Boss Fights
- An interesting overworld

both of which are not very original when you think about it. Sure, focusing it ONLY on bosses was somewhat unique, but just imagine how good it could have been if you had epic battles against normal enemies, and could explore the land for hidden goodies. You can certainly do much more with the concept.

A good game must have insane graphics. A long and captivating story line. Simple but effective controls. Something new and original to make it stand out from the rest.


No.No.Yes.Not necessarily

And something every game designer has failed. A skirmish mode for single player. After you've done the story.


You mean the thing nearly every game has? o-0
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Age of Empires series
Command and Conquer: Generals
Magicka (Challenge Mode)
Battlefield 1 + 2
Just sayin'.


Just to add:
- Pretty much every RTS ever made
- Pretty much every fighting game ever made
- Counter Strike and about a million other FPS games
- Pokemon (maybe?)

Side note: Magicka is AWESOMEEEEEEE

As much as I normally hate DLCs, I'm tempted to buy every single one just because Magicka deserves to get the support (and it's actually fairly awesome DLC).
KentyBK
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KentyBK
566 posts
Nomad

But all those games you've mentioned have other elements, do you think people play those games solely on their soundtrack?Didn't think so.


Now when did I EVER say that? All I said was that's a games most memorable part.

Literally EVERYONE knows the mario theme. Even people that have never even played it. It's that influencial.

Music as a whole is a super important medium, not just for games. I mean look at movie soundtracks.

Sure there are games like guitar hero and other music games where the music is the biggest part of the game,


Exactly. Guitar Hero doesn't need a story to be good in any way.
Once a game has a full-blown narrative structure, it stops trying to be a game and tries to become a movie.

but mostly game designers include other elements in a game to make the game interesting, fun to play and long lastability.


I already said music is not as important as accesibility,gameplay and replayability. Story(or rather "narrative&quot does not fall into these categories.

The music is the biggest part of setting emotions in a game, I forgot examples but some games have wicked memorable music going with a cutscenes that people remember forever, the only example I can remember is Final fantasy crisis core and it's music "The price of freedom" with the cutscene which was (for me) the most dramatic experience in a game. I have the music in my ipod proving how incredible it was.


You wouldn't even need cutscenes if your music is good enough.

I was never good with examples =/ but what I meant to show was that originality breaks from the same old pattern in games and gives something new and fresh to play. You wouldn't play the same thing over and over and over, right? So originality = something new and interesting.


If something was good the first time around.......why not? *Originality* in sequels ultimately leads to developers going crazy and killing what made those games good in the first place.

Originality alone can never sell a game concept. It's the other factors I mentioned that do.

So story isn't a big part of a game?


Nope.

Like I said, I'm bad with examples but for instance, would you people, in general, play dead space 2 without the storyline? same goes for other storyline games. No, they woudn't.


If your *game* falls apart if you remove the narrative, then it's not a game.

Answer me this: If story is such an important factor, why did Wii Sports sell? Why did Wii Fit? Why did Mario? Why did Pokemon? (just a reminder, I don't mean "story" as in the basic setup - become the best Pokemon Trainer, I mean "story" as in a structured story telling narrative which Pokemon clearly doesn't have).

Why did every single one of those outsell all those "epic story games"?

Don't ever, ever, EVER underestimate the power of a storyline. ever.


If I want stories, I'd read a book or watch a movie.

Funny you'd say that. What makes you think that, really? If you'd played most games with a storyline, you would still think that the "music" is better? that's the same sh!t people with graphics talk sell to me; "No, no, the graphics are whats important! nothing else but graphics!" which is ridiculous to say the least.


I hope you realise the sad irony that I could just turn that around to say "No, no, the story is whats important! nothing else but story!" so good job on having a non argument.

If story is important why do games sell that do not have it?

I already said there are more important things than music.

Same could be said about people taste in what they like in games, music, graphics, fun to play, gameplay, storyline, etc...


Considering Guitar Hero, Mario and Wii Sports are much more popular than the likes of Heavy Rain or FF13, that just goes to prove my point that story is not important.

You would be wrong my including the majority of people, but if it's something you look for in a game, so be it. If it's your kind of taste in games, I won't argue with that.


As I said, prove me wrong.

You would be suprised if people found a game with an exceptional storyline, people would wan't the same charcter, basic fundamental gameplay and continuing the storyline from where they left of from the previous game. Nothing beats a good storyline!


And this AFTER you said people don't want the same thing over and over >_>

Nothing beats a good storyline!


Except gameplay, and replay value and ease of play and all the other things.
pyro1
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pyro1
44 posts
Nomad

Great graphics, awesome music, and lots of violence!

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