I strongly think they are. if you are monarchy you can make hovers (or chronites, which I prefer because its faster and in the long run, stronger) but the way the game is made is to keep every strategy weak against something, like for example: Outpost strategies usually come to hovers or snipers (i play in safe skies because im not a queen noob so i wont talk about that) and their weakness is the air and they need a partner to make sakatas to help. forging usually goes more around phantoms, roman charges, spider attacks, and sometimes, I haven't seen it recently, but gladiators. Their weakness for ground is hovers and for air is sakatas. both have weaknesses. my new strategy (im not going to tell you everything about it so people dont abuse it) besides forging is to be monarchy and build to get a certain way to get a LOT of chronites. because they have large splash, they can hit hovers in one burst and do insane damage, and with medics behind them, they're beast. The only downside is that phantoms can do some pretty heavy damage to them so i make a sphinx. not only does the sphinx beat hovers and other special armors but its anti air looks like a sniper bullet, but its more powerful, its faster, and i think it has splash damage. it makes my strategy bullet-proof unless the enemy rushes, but i'm a level 10 (Jason) and im smart enough to defend against rushes with chronites if i see one coming. You might argue, oh but light attacks from romans and marines (etc.) can kill it so easy! but if you think of it from my perspective, the chronites kill all light attacks in a burst which makes it so they cant reach the sphinx. this makes them almost untouchable, and with medics behind it, it really is unstoppable. Ideas to stop this are: 1) make sphinx range to air much shorter, the length of a marines missile. 2) make the shot weaker and have less speed. 3)If there is splash damage, shorten it or get rid of it. 4) cancel its ranged attack. These listed would make my strategy vulnerable to the air the way it should be so i can counter with the best anti air (in safe skies) that an outpost can make, groditz. this brings me to my next subject, the underused, and underpowered, groditz. These supposedly have chronite armor. i don't notice it. The require an armory, they take a pretty long time, i think its longer then chronites, they are effective against air to a degree but they can be beated by a chronite attack. i think Groditz are underused because they are EXTREMELY underpowered for their cost, time build, requirements to make, etc. and they need a major power up. here is a list of idea i think would help out groditz. 1)Instead of carrying machine guns, the could carry cannons that phantoms have, more ground impact and stronger. 2)Stronger armor/more health so they could hold their own. 3)Faster build time. 4)A bit longer range, maybe the range of a sniper? 5)Faster machine guns. 6)Have the legs of the Groditz to carry shock absorbing material making the phantoms ground impact and splash from everything less. 7)Maybe a bit more speed, like a marine's speed at least. Those are my ideas for the Groditz. Unlike the sphinxes idea though, I think it would take a combination of some of these to make the hold their own, ideas: "1, 4, and 6" together would do good, maybe even all, maybe all but one, i don't know but what i do know is that they NEED a power boost. More damage, range, and the armor/shock absorption would really help. Please comment if you agree or disagree on both of these ideas (sphinx and groditz) and please tell me your ideas to add or take away power. It would be very appreciated.
Another unit that is overpowered is the pride. or at least with monarchy. they have the range of a sniper and can be called very early with monarchy and a spec ops, and what is so bad about them is that because of their range and because of their speed and power, they can trap you at the start of the match. This is a big issue because you dont have anything to counter them until you get to about tier three in the main 2 buildings, and while they sit there they can get medics behind them, also making this uncounterable. fixes are 1)Prides have the range of a roman. 2)Prides have less damage or fire rate. 3)Make prides cost 50 influence, maybe even 65.
While im on the topic of prides and medics, medics are also overpowered when it comes to influence. the medic alone is terrible but in groups it makes any army extremely strong. Medics, or meditecs should be underpowered by 1)Taking away some range making chronites blast radius able to reach them if the enemy units are packed tight enough. 2)Make the influence medic maker whatever only make 2 medics or cost 35-50 influence. 3)Medics heal less or have a slower rate of healing. These are just some of my idea again to make overpowered units better suited.
The medic 'fix' will destroy the unit. They're not op at all. Of course a lot of medics will make an army stronger - a lot of units will make an army stronger, period.
The pride should get #1 applied to them, and maybe 3, but not 2. They're powerful enough, the problem is that they're easily rushable.
Groditz are fine - they're meant to be a jack-of-all-trades unit with middle power. They can handle both ground and air, but neither exceptionally. Although making them a bit faster wouldn't hurt.
I don't know about the sphinx, because I haven't had any time testing it out.
Groditz are fine - they're meant to be a jack-of-all-trades unit with middle power. They can handle both ground and air, but neither exceptionally. Although making them a bit faster wouldn't hurt.
Groditz are too underpowered, like compare them to their counterpart, the phantom. Phantoms are air to ground, although groditz can attack both, they cant do it nearly as well as phantoms, plus they are very weak. In how many games do you see the enemy using phantoms? seriously?
I don't know about the sphinx, because I haven't had any time testing it out.
They make the ground almost invincible, watch it. be monarchy and make a sphinx and make chronites and tell me how hard it is to win
The pride should get #1 applied to them, and maybe 3, but not 2. They're powerful enough, the problem is that they're easily rushable.
Prides really are too easy to rush and trap, less range or higher cost or both would even them out.
The medic 'fix' will destroy the unit. They're not op at all. Of course a lot of medics will make an army stronger - a lot of units will make an army stronger, period.
Medics are too strong with monarchy, you can easily get 10-15 as monarchy in the first minute-two minutes and by that time you can have a wave of chronites ready and its really unfair for the opponents if your partner has sakatas.
Medics are too strong with monarchy, you can easily get 10-15 as monarchy in the first minute-two minutes and by that time you can have a wave of chronites ready and its really unfair for the opponents if your partner has sakatas.
The entire game is not centered around monarchy. Just because one government can spam a n=unit doesn't mean the unit should be excruciatingly weakened. Any of the things you suggested for the medic, even on their own would make them almost useless. ALSO, you're proposing severely limiting their usefulness because they're really powerful in a specific setup. That's just plain stupid - and making them cost a lot of influence will pigeonhole them into that setup even more, which is contradictory to your goal of making them balanced. Of course, that goal doesn't matter because medics are already balanced.
with someone having a load of medics behind tanks its really hard to defeat them. yes you have a point though... in a way, the other person can get medics too :P my first idea and main one is sphinx to be lowered and groditz to be raised. the prides and medics just came up after, but prides should definentally be lowered. medics are really abused with monarchy though and there needs to be somewhat of a limitation... maybe medics can only heal human units or something like that... im not sure but you do agree that if someone has a spam of medics behind hovers its SO hard to beat it.
I recently was playing with TheGovenator and i showed him how sphinx and chronites were invincible together and he argued that what about cold war and normal mode? the missiles will beat them. but hovers and sphinx beat that. it takes longer and it costs more but im sure it has the same extent. :P but anyways medics arent the main issues, prides, sphinx, and groditz are :P i really want groditz to be stronger so i can use the underdog for once and win with him :P
The thing is, if we bump groditz up, each buff has double the effect because it means that they'll be that much stronger against *all* units, and not just air or ground. So if groditzes are to be buffed, it should really only be against one type of unit - air or ground.
im not sure but you do agree that if someone has a spam of medics behind hovers its SO hard to beat it.
I do agree it's tough, but that just mean that your opponent is using a good strategy. Units shouldn't be penalized because they're an integral part of a good strategy.
i showed him how sphinx and chronites were invincible together and he argued that what about cold war and normal mode? the missiles will beat them. but hovers and sphinx beat that.
Checks and balances.
Prides shouldn't be powered down a whole lot, but they should be made unrushable, because they're too strong to be available en masse so early. But get rid of the rushability, and they're balanced enough.
Take a look at the numbers. The very first thing that catches my glance is that Groditz have a much higher DPS than Chronite Tanks in every category (Disregarding splash; however, even with splash, a Chronite Tank is only effective against Marines, Medics, and Romans, all of which are killed incredibly easy in the first place).
How are Groditz underpowered if they counter Phantoms, BQs, Saints, Snipers, and can even take on Hover Tanks at the proper ratio (which would be somewhere around 2:1 Groditz:Tanks).
Basically, what I'm saying is that Groditz will crush any air-heavy army.
As for Sphynxes, something that jumps out at me is the Roman. It has BARELY any less range than the Sphynx, and can take 2 shots from a Sphynx, as well as dealing a whopping 49 damage per-shot. The correct ratio for Romans:Sphynxes? Somewhere close to 20:1, because Romans are ridiculously cheap and easily produced. Also, it's one of the things Marines are actually good at. They can basically be infinitely produced (even easier than Romans), and can equal a Sphynxes range, dealing an amazing 13 damage a shot at a very fast attack rate. Mass Marines > Sphynx.
If you're going a Monarchy build yourself, S-Marines can be used. Alternatively, you can just throw up an Outpost and get Marines that way. You can even nuke the crap out of it.
Medics are fine, as well. Saints own any MediTank army (Duh), and if they have Sakatas, that means it's 2v2. In 2v2, Double Monarchy Saints will beat SakataMediTank. Not to mention that Prides will destroy them >.>
Speaking of Prides, I believe they are only overpowered when you consider the Bank Ops build. That build is really just unfair. Luckily, it only applies in 1v1. Since you're talking about 2v2, I'll have to consider those options.
As SS over at KL pointed out, Roman Rush will beat just about everything, be it with Snipers, Tanks, or a Monarchy build (ironically). Romans + Snipers will beat the timing of a Bank Ops build (although the Snipers will only just beat it. However, since your partner spams Romans, they can't even get to your Snipers to take them out). The story doesn't change much if they go Pride + Tank, as Snipers can kill all of the tanks in a matter of seconds without exposing their Romans.
Also, SphynxMediTank will lose every time to Saints...Saints...and more Saints.
Tell me how hard it is to spam both Sphynxes and Medics (with the use of Emergency Rescue Team), or both Medics and Tanks (with the use of normal MP Medics). You've got to produce Medics through one of the methods, and using either one will hinder your production of the third unit. If they manage to do this and you lose, that means you were going to lose anyways >.>
I recently returned to Colony after about 3 months. I played one game on Jetzul, got rushed, but countered with CTs and then smothered them in snipers. I noticed a new unit - the Sphy(I?)nx. Next game, I played as a Monarchy, and deflected another rush with CTs, then randomly experimented with different builds, before ending up with one War Sanctum and 3 Spec Ops. Pumped three Sphynx, and about 20 Medics, then reinforced with Saints. To my great surprise:
1. Gladiators are no longer that weak to air... 2. WTF I JUST THREE SHOTTED A BQ OMG!!!! 3. GAHAHAHAHA!!!
Game over, *************. **** yeah.
Okay, what I think:
1. Krin is trying to add more: "Hard Counters" to the game. 2. Eg, Sphynxes counter heavy, CT's counter light, light counters Sphynx, Heavy counters light, Sakata MkIIs counter air... 3. I like this because it means you have to constantly swap your build about.
Great feedback about these units. I feel right now, it's possible Monarchy that is really strong, and not the individual units. I will consider lowering their Influence gain or Manpower/Energy gain a little, because that should solve them being able to get Chronite + Sphinx so easily.
I'm also considering:
*Increasing Pride cost, and decreasing it's health a little. This will make it less massable, and weaker against units that can hit it.
*Decreasing CD between Sphinx air shots a little.
*Buffing Groditz HP, which make them stronger against units like Phantoms and Chronite Tanks. I think right now they fill their role well as a general support unit.
Great feedback about these units. I feel right now, it's possible Monarchy that is really strong, and not the individual units. I will consider lowering their Influence gain or Manpower/Energy gain a little, because that should solve them being able to get Chronite + Sphinx so easily.
Try crippling their money gain - it'd limit the speed of the gradual shift to pure Influence. Of course, I'm just a humble player to your all powerful creating might, so I'm probably wrong...
How are Groditz underpowered if they counter Phantoms, BQs, Saints, Snipers, and can even take on Hover Tanks at the proper ratio (which would be somewhere around 2:1 Groditz:Tanks).
even with that ratio, chronites with the splash will get the groditz, they are less costely and faster to make or = to make...
oh and zeke, what you said about the checks and balances though, there is one problem with the sphinx, if you think about it, light units do counter the sphinx, but surround the sphinx with stronger splash units made for anti light, like chronties (hence the strategy i was using) it makes it EXTREMELY hard to counter. and what you were asking me about how i make sphinx and meditecs, its really easy to pin the enemy with one sphinx and chronites and with monarchy and the moving range whatever (like the field's natural influence gain) you will gain 6 per like resources nature gain, allowing you to get more medics very fast.
*Buffing Groditz HP, which make them stronger against units like Phantoms and Chronite Tanks. I think right now they fill their role well as a general support unit.
sounds good, but i think the shock absorption this at least from phantoms because their damage is 'ground impact' should be added too maybe :P anyways, thanks for listening krin
I think right now they fill their role well as a general support unit.
What you said there though... its sort of hard to agree. They get slapped by chronite tanks... the only thing i could think of that they do well against is scouts and in about a 1.5:1 ratio to phantoms. I also have more ideas with the actual gameplay, like a 'following' feature. It gets hard to keep medics behind stronger units like chronites because medics are faster and you have to like juggle the medics behind your chronites. Same with snipers. I think if you added like a 'follow' feature to drag and select some units, or double click for all then drag click or click one unit to have them follow. the downside though is with the follow, should they follow close, far, what? close has advantages for something like snipers and hovertanks and far has an advantage for like romans and snipers or medics and whatever so the medics arent hit by splash. but if you add a follow feature.. idk maybe use a hotkey, like Ctrl or something where you drag select one group or double click to select all then hold ctrl and click on one unit for drag for following the group, or double click to have them follow all (but follow the frontmost) would help. Thanks again for taking this into consideration
[quote]Great feedback about these units. I feel right now, it's possible Monarchy that is really strong, and not the individual units. I will consider lowering their Influence gain or Manpower/Energy gain a little, because that should solve them being able to get Chronite + Sphinx so easily.
Try crippling their money gain - it'd limit the speed of the gradual shift to pure Influence. Of course, I'm just a humble player to your all powerful creating might, so I'm probably wrong...[/quote]
lol :P well the money gain crippling would be effective against stopping pride rushes so it would stop the pride problem and it would make sphinx, etc. get out slower making them less effective.
Those are ideas too, i think maybe monarchy should gain 2 in everything? it would limit them severely... and maybe make prides cost influence and like 20 energy or something...
